Powerful interview. The distinction about imposing the present onto the past rather than learning from it cuts through a lot of confused thinking lately. That kind of intellectual violence Phil describes is subtle but damaging, specially when people think they're honring history by making bad comparisons. I've struggled with this too when trying to explain why certain analogies just miss the weight of what actually happened.
Miranda posed the right questions to bring out Philip's keen observations and insightful answers about Polish Jewish history, antisemitism, the Holocaust and current events affecting Jews world wide. He correctly notes how no event today is even remotely comparable to the Holocaust yet so many brazenly make that comparison. I would like to know more about the girl who asked where her mother was, and her sister-in-law who said 'I'm you're mother now." Did they survive? Phil's affirmative answer to the question could it happen here? underscores that exact point made by psychiatrist Douglas Kelley who was assigned to Nazi Hermann Goring as he awaited trial at Nuremberg (see the recent film, the character played by Rami Malek) He wrote a book to support his theory and was shunned the rest of his life. I was privileged to interview Phil's school librarian Hansi Bodenheim for the Shoah Foundation, available to be seen and heard on the Shoah website. Hers is among the 50,000 survivors interviews on the front lines against holocaust denial and distant history.
Thank you, this was really excellent and moving. Thought I'd just put in a few of my reactions/thoughts.
"POLIN Museum in Warsaw"
Just FYI, Professor Sam Kassow was very involved in designing this museum. He has a history course on Ashkenazi Jewish history that I believe you can still watch online through YIVO's website (I watched it several years ago). He is also featured in the documentary about Ringelblum and the Warsaw Ghetto Oyneg Shabbos group called something like Who Will Write Our History (he also wrote a book on them). Finally, saw a great documentary years ago called something like Raise the Roof, about reconstructing the synagogue roof that is in the Polin museum--highly recommended.
"There were people who went along with it, and there were people who didn’t. I think it would be the same everywhere."
Unfortunately the vast majority follow the crowd rather than their own head/moral compass. Those who don't are a tiny statistically insignificant minority (which is not to say they are insignificant, they are truly heroic, only unfortunately there are not enough of them--just look at the current antizionist hate movement today).
"What I think is very disturbing is that people who invoke the Holocaust at this moment seem to think they’re learning the lessons of history by imposing the past onto the present. But what they’re doing is the opposite: they are imposing the present onto the past. And that’s like a double act of intellectual violence. I have to believe that when people do it they don’t quite know enough about either situation."
Thank you, that is so well-put! Unfortunately, it seems much of "Holocaust education" has just given ignorant people more rhetorical tools with which to attack Jews (Dara Horn wrote two excellent articles in the Atlantic about this, both before and after Oct 7).
Wow! Someday I hope to travel to Poland, where my family on my mother’s side is from, and connect with history, and myself. I do appreciate how Phil’s story did not only focus on the horror but on the celebration and joy of past and present Jewish life. I also believe it can happen again, right under our noses - a slow breeze that cyclones before most pick up the scent and are able to fight - defend - escape - prepare.
Powerful interview. The distinction about imposing the present onto the past rather than learning from it cuts through a lot of confused thinking lately. That kind of intellectual violence Phil describes is subtle but damaging, specially when people think they're honring history by making bad comparisons. I've struggled with this too when trying to explain why certain analogies just miss the weight of what actually happened.
Miranda posed the right questions to bring out Philip's keen observations and insightful answers about Polish Jewish history, antisemitism, the Holocaust and current events affecting Jews world wide. He correctly notes how no event today is even remotely comparable to the Holocaust yet so many brazenly make that comparison. I would like to know more about the girl who asked where her mother was, and her sister-in-law who said 'I'm you're mother now." Did they survive? Phil's affirmative answer to the question could it happen here? underscores that exact point made by psychiatrist Douglas Kelley who was assigned to Nazi Hermann Goring as he awaited trial at Nuremberg (see the recent film, the character played by Rami Malek) He wrote a book to support his theory and was shunned the rest of his life. I was privileged to interview Phil's school librarian Hansi Bodenheim for the Shoah Foundation, available to be seen and heard on the Shoah website. Hers is among the 50,000 survivors interviews on the front lines against holocaust denial and distant history.
Thank you, this was really excellent and moving. Thought I'd just put in a few of my reactions/thoughts.
"POLIN Museum in Warsaw"
Just FYI, Professor Sam Kassow was very involved in designing this museum. He has a history course on Ashkenazi Jewish history that I believe you can still watch online through YIVO's website (I watched it several years ago). He is also featured in the documentary about Ringelblum and the Warsaw Ghetto Oyneg Shabbos group called something like Who Will Write Our History (he also wrote a book on them). Finally, saw a great documentary years ago called something like Raise the Roof, about reconstructing the synagogue roof that is in the Polin museum--highly recommended.
"There were people who went along with it, and there were people who didn’t. I think it would be the same everywhere."
Unfortunately the vast majority follow the crowd rather than their own head/moral compass. Those who don't are a tiny statistically insignificant minority (which is not to say they are insignificant, they are truly heroic, only unfortunately there are not enough of them--just look at the current antizionist hate movement today).
"What I think is very disturbing is that people who invoke the Holocaust at this moment seem to think they’re learning the lessons of history by imposing the past onto the present. But what they’re doing is the opposite: they are imposing the present onto the past. And that’s like a double act of intellectual violence. I have to believe that when people do it they don’t quite know enough about either situation."
Thank you, that is so well-put! Unfortunately, it seems much of "Holocaust education" has just given ignorant people more rhetorical tools with which to attack Jews (Dara Horn wrote two excellent articles in the Atlantic about this, both before and after Oct 7).
in case you are interested, here are links to both documentaries and Professor Kassow's book:
https://www.amazon.com/Raise-Roof-Documentary-Yari-Wolinsky/dp/B01N0B4E0B/ref=sr_1_2?crid=264LL0DLBRBHH&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.wii9De9B1q5B-Og6n9gM7iy2NJFSrC0uBbC3LCVw9K-3f5pLC3bzalMRXxixApQ0P7Fc5E8S7845mlmEmIFMIU7AOkesD9k_IIsJja8KpV7NJnPNRR912mkA-gV0Hv1llY0u2HJ7w16RQfhpld_zydfB_Ybh8CM6J5dD0zt3ZnYLFtSyF6XFpsD-EWGzh8uDjalgGZ23pflRe8lk_9ZMU1nvkaVqaHjRi1DWh5iajBk.UevD6zGpQM1-LfhBTy2KJunMsEmIX05sCp0T-tbLOxk&dib_tag=se&keywords=raise+the+roof+documentary&qid=1769872726&sprefix=raise+the+roof+documentary%2Caps%2C127&sr=8-2
https://www.amazon.com/Who-Will-Write-Our-History/dp/B0GHRHXDW2/ref=sr_1_1?crid=RRN5YUYO2UH9&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.MuRZfFEWYSiIFgDrUs5e9me-RUHp5-Hdi6ctKJ3cIMCrzTzNItWTZ7nR2a6Pb1wJVx0y7p0fQmmrAeM8yU2sGutJudhEYY-xs7QqKT3Mu82oPHPNRWlJSIGMZwk3zhgZjAlUxRvRQsjDLmV9jjXTb4MwGdvsm3u1iqoHeq192h5A0t7v0ALBdDKOrctL1dEBTEXuNRk8YNr-vvggyAl1QYpqMVbJBXH04iGOvcZdbkE.gOmX3OYvCdXD12fuDT1QbVAGb-EQbUs_e8obr2KByT4&dib_tag=se&keywords=who+will+write+our+history+film&qid=1769872773&sprefix=who+will+write+our+history+%2Caps%2C141&sr=8-1
https://www.amazon.com/Who-Will-Write-History-Rediscovering/dp/0307455866/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3QMERQFLNNYHJ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.vV-ax2w_aPQovnm8x6sS3W8c_rzo1_CFfnMLrsVAx8IowxJ6YfXAz99LJdvZyZ8Fma7-_ZeiQ0SDo55y867axl5GtlVveNbHHjOJhb_8oqiYK3SygGr-YXXbhdXMmKHk3OE4sofrOdaPGGVYH4_MwEhmHaAbk7ipxntzGvENRMU9G5TLy6cBrmVEPQns7IJog5x7KO8qfIWNWjB0sPULV0LwCPPh6LNKdtDnCbb6coQ.vx2yDAgkktux9uE2fS_fHV2K0rycaKTUARQloZrGdrg&dib_tag=se&keywords=who+will+write+our+history&qid=1769872761&sprefix=who+will+writ%2Caps%2C157&sr=8-1
Wow! Someday I hope to travel to Poland, where my family on my mother’s side is from, and connect with history, and myself. I do appreciate how Phil’s story did not only focus on the horror but on the celebration and joy of past and present Jewish life. I also believe it can happen again, right under our noses - a slow breeze that cyclones before most pick up the scent and are able to fight - defend - escape - prepare.
Thank you Phil for sharing your story - it has given me a lot to think about, which perhaps was your intent.